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 ===== How would you live if you were certain that there were no supernatural gods and no life after death? ===== ===== How would you live if you were certain that there were no supernatural gods and no life after death? =====
  
-That's what we explore here at Epicureanfriends.com, the internet home of +That's what we explore here at Epicureanfriends.com, the internet home of [[Classical Epicurean Philosophy]].
-  [[https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/blog/entry/38-not-neo-epicurean-but-epicurean/|Classical Epicurean Philosophy]].+
  
 EpicureanFriends was established in 2015 by a group of friends interested in the study of Epicurus freed from the intrusion of contemporary politics, Stoicism, Platonism, Humanism, and other "isms" with which many seek to combine it. At EpicureanFriends, we focus on the fundamentals of life as Epicurus taught them himself: EpicureanFriends was established in 2015 by a group of friends interested in the study of Epicurus freed from the intrusion of contemporary politics, Stoicism, Platonism, Humanism, and other "isms" with which many seek to combine it. At EpicureanFriends, we focus on the fundamentals of life as Epicurus taught them himself:
  
-{{  :d2fd8b839004f38c7bc81e544fe8b41a.png?523x361  }}+{{ :d2fd8b839004f38c7bc81e544fe8b41a.png?direct&523 }}
  
-===== Here Our Highest Good Is Pleasure =====+===== The Epicurean Worldview: A Revolutionary Paradigm For The Best Life =====
  
-Epicurus held that there are only two feelings given by Nature - pleasure and pain - and that if you are aware of feeling anything at all you are feeling one of the two. Thus if you are not feeling pain you are feeling pleasure, and so to Epicurus the word [[https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/faq-question/13-pleasure-what-is-the-epicurean-definition-of-pleasure/|"pleasure"]] refers not only to //agreeable sensory stimulation of mind and body// but also to //all normal and healthy conditions of mind and body,// as these too are experienced but not felt to be painful. Seen in this way, Epicurus call to pursue pleasure is neither "hedonistic" nor "ascetic," but a call to pursue health of body and mind according to Nature.+Epicurus is well known for his advocacy of "pleasure" as the focus of life, but what Epicurus meant by "pleasure" has been disputed for 2000 years. The truth is that Epicurus held a very expansive definition of pleasure that his detractors refused to admit. Simply put, Epicurus held that Nature gives us only two feelings by which to determine what to choose and what to avoid, that those two feelings are pleasure and pain, and that if you are aware of feeling anything at all you are feeling //one of the two//.
  
-//"Again, the truth that pleasure is the supreme good can be most easily apprehended from the following consideration. Let us imagine an individual in the enjoyment of pleasures great, numerous and constant, both mental and bodily, with no pain to thwart or threaten them; I ask what circumstances can we describe as more excellent than these or more desirable? A man whose circumstances are such must needs possess, as well as other things, a robust mind subject to no fear of death or pain, because death is apart from sensation, and pain when lasting is usually slight, when oppressive is of short duration, so that its temporariness reconciles us to its intensity, and its slightness to its continuance." (Torquatus Section, On Ends [40] XII., Cicero)//+>
  
-//"This is why we say that pleasure is the beginning and the end of a completely happy life. For we recognize it as the primary and innate good, we honor it in everything we accept or reject, and we achieve it if we judge every good thing by the standard of how that thing affects us. And because this is the primary and inborn good, we do not choose every pleasure. Instead, we pass up many pleasures when we will gain more of what we need from doing so. And we consider many pains to be better than pleasures, if we experience a greater pleasure for a long time from having endured those pains. So every pleasure is a good thing because its nature is favorable to us, yet not every pleasure is to be chosen — just as every pain is a bad thing, yet not every pain is always to be shunned. It is proper to make all these decisions through measuring things side by side and looking at both the advantages and disadvantages, for sometimes we treat a good thing as bad and a bad thing as good. (excerpt from Letter to Menoeceus)//+>**Quote from Diogenes Laertius 10:34**\\ ”The internal sensations they say are two, pleasure and pain, which occur to every living creature, and the one is akin to nature and the other alien: by means of these two choice and avoidance are determined.“
  
-To Epicurus, "pleasure" was not a term that is confined to occasional experiences of mental or physical excitement. "Pleasure" includes //all// mental and physical experiences which we do not find painful. Under this worldview, //every// moment of life is either pleasurable or painful, and there is no middle ground between the two. "Pleasure" therefore includes every type of agreeable experience, no matter how cerebral, emotional, or physical. And since "death is nothing to us" - we cease to exist and have no experiences of any kind after death - the Epicurean understands the urgency of appreciating life fully for the pleasure that it affords.+>
  
-As a result of this view of life, the phrase "absence of pain" comes into focus - not as an attitude of escape from discomfort - but as meaning exactly the same thing as "pleasure." This cannot be overstated: "absence of pain" need not be seen as a mysterious condition hinting at altered states of consciousness or drugged-out stupor. Instead, "absence of pain" describes the result of achieving the logical and natural goal of life in its highest and best form - a life of positive experiences without any mixture of negatives.+>**Quote from Torquatus, Speaking for Epicurus in Cicero's On Ends 1:38**\\ Therefore Epicurus refused to allow that there is any middle term between pain and pleasure; what was thought by some to be a middle term, the absence of all pain, was not only itself pleasure, but the highest pleasure possible. __Surely any one who is conscious of his own condition must needs be either in a state of pleasure or in a state of pain__. Epicurus thinks that the highest degree of pleasure is defined by the removal of all pain, so that pleasure may afterwards exhibit diversities and differences but is incapable of increase or extension.“
  
-This view of the relationship between pleasure and pain is similar to the Epicurean view of atomism: //everything// in the universe is understood to be composed of either matter or void, and those are the only two possibilities. In a similar same way, from the Epicurean perspective every //feeling// is understood to be one of only two possibilities: pleasure or pain. From this perspective, //any feeling which is not a pleasure is a pain, and any feeling which is not a pain is a pleasure.// +Thus if you are not feeling pain you are feeling pleasure, and so to Epicurus the word "pleasure" refers __not only__ to //agreeable sensory stimulation of mind and body// __but also__ to //all normal and healthy experiences of mind and body, //as these too are not painful and are therefore pleasurable.
-===== The Epicurean Worldview: A New Paradigm For The Best Life =====+
  
-As you might imagine, this sweeping definition of pleasure leads to a major shift in perspective. As Norman DeWitt, a noted scholar of Epicurus, observed:+>
  
-//"The extension of the name of pleasure to this normal state of being was the major innovation of the new hedonism. It was in the negative form, freedom from pain of body and distress of mind, that it drew the most persistent and vigorous condemnation from adversaries. The contention was that the application of the name of pleasure to this state was unjustified on the ground that two different things were thereby being denominated by one name. Cicero made a great to-do over this argument, but it is really superficial and captious. **The fact that the name of pleasure was not customarily applied to the normal or static state did not alter the fact that the name ought to be applied to it; nor that reason justified the application; nor that human beings would be the happier for so reasoning and believing.**"//+>**Quote from Cicero's On Ends 1:39**\\ For if that were the only pleasure which tickled the senses, as it were, if I may say so, and which overflowed and penetrated them with a certain agreeable feeling, then even a hand could not be content with freedom from pain without some pleasing motion of pleasure. But if the highest pleasure is, as Epicurus asserts, to be free from pain, then, O Chrysippus, the first admission was correctly made to you, that the hand, when it was in that condition, was in want of nothing; but the second admission was not equally correct, that if pleasure were a good it would wish for it. __For it would not wish for it for this reason, inasmuch as whatever is free from pain is in pleasure__.
  
-Epicurus' worldview rejects not only the prevailing definition of "[[https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/faq-question/13-pleasure-what-is-the-epicurean-definition-of-pleasure/|pleasure]]," but also the common conceptions of "[[https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/faq-question/12-gods-what-is-the-epicurean-definition-of-a-god/|gods]]," "[[https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/faq-question/41-virtue-what-is-virtue-to-epicurus/|virtue]]," and even "[[https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/faq-question/42-what-did-epicurus-say-about-the-relationship-between-good-and-evil/|good and evil]]."+Seen in this way, Epicurean philosophy is neither "hedonistic" nor "ascetic," as those terms are generally understood. Instead, the Epicurean worldview identifies __all types__ of healthy non-painful function of both body and mind as desirable. After establishing that this is the goal provided by Nature, Epicurus worked to provide the best advice possible to successfully attain that goal. This revolutionary paradigm of the best life was stated explicitly by the Epicureans in the following terms:
  
-In Epicurean terms "[[https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/faq-question/12-gods-what-is-the-epicurean-definition-of-a-god/|gods]]" do exist, and it is important to act "[[https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/faq-question/41-virtue-what-is-virtue-to-epicurus/|virtuously]]," but "[[https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/faq-question/12-gods-what-is-the-epicurean-definition-of-a-god/|gods]]" are not supernatural or omniscient beings which create universes or control human affairs, and "[[https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/faq-question/41-virtue-what-is-virtue-to-epicurus/|virtue]]" is not desirable as an end it itself, but as a means of obtaining pleasure. "Good" and "evil" are not abstract absolutes, but are ultimately evaluations based on sensations of pleasure and pain felt by real living things. "Practical Reason" is held to be essential for living wisely, but "dialectical logic" is rejected as misleading. It is a major goal of EpicureanFriends to explore Epicurean terminology in these and other areas so we can appreciate the philosophy as the ancient Epicureans understood it.+> 
 + 
 +>**Quote from Torquatus, Speaking For Epicurus, In Cicero's "On Ends"**\\ "Again, the truth that pleasure is the supreme good can be most easily apprehended from the following consideration. Let us imagine an individual in the enjoyment of pleasures great, numerous and constant, both mental and bodily, with no pain to thwart or threaten them; I ask what circumstances can we describe as more excellent than these or more desirable? A man whose circumstances are such must needs possess, as well as other things, a robust mind subject to no fear of death or pain, because death is apart from sensation, and pain when lasting is usually slight, when oppressive is of short duration, so that its temporariness reconciles us to its intensity, and its slightness to its continuance. When in addition we suppose that such a man is in no awe of the influence of the gods, and does not allow his past pleasures to slip away, but takes delight in constantly recalling them, what circumstance is it possible to add to these, to make his condition better?" (//On Ends// [40] XII) 
 + 
 +Under this worldview, "pleasure" is not a term that is confined to occasional experiences of mental or physical excitement. "Pleasure" includes //all// mental and physical experiences which we do not find painful. When //every// moment of life is seen to be either pleasurable or painful, there is no middle ground between the two. Every type of agreeable experience, including the cerebral, the emotional, and the physical, is seen to be valuable to us. And since death is //nothing// to us - since we cease to exist and have no experiences of any kind after death - the Epicurean understands better than anyone else the urgency of appreciating fully the pleasure that life affords. 
 + 
 +This perspective brings "absence of pain" into focus - not as an attitude of escape from discomfort - but as a term meaning exactly the same thing as "pleasure." The importance of this definition cannot be overstated: Epicurus did not promote "absence of pain" as an endorsement of anesthesia or altered states of consciousness or drugged-out stupor. Instead, Epicurus advocated "absence of pain" as the best description of the highest and best life - brimming with positive experiences without any mixture of negatives. 
 + 
 +> 
 + 
 +>**Quote from Epicurus' Letter to Menoeceus**\\ And for this cause we call pleasure the beginning and end of the blessed life. For we recognize pleasure as the first good innate in us, and from pleasure we begin every act of choice and avoidance, and to pleasure we return again, using the feeling as the standard by which we judge every good. And since pleasure is the first good and natural to us, for this very reason we do not choose every pleasure, but sometimes we pass over many pleasures, when greater discomfort accrues to us as the result of them: and similarly we think many pains better than pleasures, since a greater pleasure comes to us when we have endured pains for a long time. Every pleasure then because of its natural kinship to us is good, yet not every pleasure is to be chosen: even as every pain also is an evil, yet not all are always of a nature to be avoided. Yet by a scale of comparison and by the consideration of advantages and disadvantages we must form our judgment on all these matters. For the good on certain occasions we treat as bad, and conversely the bad as good. 
 + 
 +The insight that all states of life are composed of either pleasure or pain parallels the Epicurean viewpoint that all bodies are composed of either matter or void. In a universe where every space is occupied by matter or void, human feelings are understood in a similar way - every //feeling// is either pleasure or pain, which is the same as saying that //any feeling which is not a pleasure is a pain, and any feeling which is not a pain is a pleasure. //As you might imagine, this sweeping definition of pleasure leads to a major shift in perspective. As one noted scholar of Epicurus observed: 
 + 
 +> 
 + 
 +>Quote from Norman DeWitt, "Epicurus And His Philosophy"\\ The extension of the name of pleasure to this normal state of being was the major innovation of the new hedonism. It was in the negative form, freedom from pain of body and distress of mind, that it drew the most persistent and vigorous condemnation from adversaries. The contention was that the application of the name of pleasure to this state was unjustified on the ground that two different things were thereby being denominated by one name. Cicero made a great to-do over this argument, but it is really superficial and captious. **The fact that the name of pleasure was not customarily applied to the normal or static state did not alter the fact that the name ought to be applied to it; nor that reason justified the application; nor that human beings would be the happier for so reasoning and believing.** 
 + 
 +Epicurus' rejection of commonplace assumptions was by no means limited to the prevailing definition of "pleasure." Epicurean philosophy leads to a redefinition of many other common misconceptions, including "gods," "virtue," and even "good and evil." 
 + 
 +In Epicurean terms "gods" do exist, and it is important to act "virtuously," but "gods" are not supernatural or omniscient beings which create universes or control human affairs, and "virtue" is not desirable as an end it itself, but as a means of obtaining pleasure. "Good" and "evil" are not abstract absolutes, but are ultimately evaluations based on sensations of pleasure and pain felt by real living things. "Practical Reason" is held to be essential for living wisely, but "dialectical logic" is rejected as misleading. It is a major goal of EpicureanFriends to explore Epicurean terminology in these and other areas so we can appreciate the philosophy as the ancient Epicureans understood it. 
 + 
 +For more on terminology and similar topics, check out our FAQ page. We also particularly recommend Episode 222 of the Lucetius Today Podcast where we discuss key terminology issues surrounding "happiness" and "pleasure" and "virtue." Click over to our Getting Started page for further ideas on where to go from here as you start the study of Epicurus. See our Recommended Reading List in our FAQ for other ideas on places to start reading. 
 + 
 +You are welcome to access our site without an account. However, there are benefits to registering, and an account is necessary in order to participate in our discussions and make full use of our resources. 
 + 
 +The following list is a sample of what you can do here at EpicureanFriends. Our forum and all other study materials are dedicated exclusively to the study of Epicurus from the perspective of Classical Epicurean Philosophy, which means we are committed to promoting truly Epicurean rather than "Neo-Epicurean" ideas. 
 + 
 +===== Getting Started At EpicureanFriends.com ===== 
 + 
 +To get the most benefit from your time here: 
 + 
 +  -     Read our EpicureanFriends Forums - Start in the General Discussion forum, or any of our many Special Topic forums. Due to the high number of forums already in place, we recommend the easy to use Search function at the top of each page, and you can search by Popular Tags or review our Full List of Tags. We also have many hyperlinked Outlines that will assist in navigating through the forum structure. We also have a list of Forum Short-Cuts to help you find the most popular forums. 
 +  -     Read our Frequently Asked Questions section - a list of many of the questions that normally come up during study. (If you have an account and find something missing, let us know and we'll add to it). 
 +  -     Read our collection of the Ancient Epicurean Extant Texts - a curated EpicureanFriends online collection of key texts. We recommend starting with the letters of Epicurus from Diogenes Laertus Book 10. 
 +  -     Read the two books we most recommend: Epicurus and His Philosophy by Norman DeWitt, and Living For Pleasure: An Epicurean Guide to Life by Emily Austin. Austin's book provides an attractive and practical introduction geared toward those who are just starting with the philosophy, and DeWitt's book provides a sweeping overview of the philosophy with many additional details. 
 +  -     Listen to our Lucretius Today Podcast series - new episodes are released each week. We have well over 200 episodes and counting since we started with Episode One in 2020. Episodes of special note include Lucretius Today Interviews Dr. Emily Austin, Letter to Menoeceus, The Canon, Reason, and Nature, Epicurus and His Philosophy: The New Hedonism, and especially Episode 200 (our anniversary episode discussing our past and future plans for the podcast). 
 +  -     Read our key Articles section - indepth material on a variety of issues. 
 +  -     Visit our Epicurean Friends Youtube Page - a selection of useful video presentations on Epicurus produced over the years. 
 +  -     Check out our Special Resources Page - a variety of informative items prepared by our EpicureanFriends forum members. 
 +  -     Check out our extensive Recommended Reading List - books and articles which we find supportive of our views on Epicurus. 
 +  -     Check out our Image Gallery - a collection of images, graphics, and memes by EpicureanFriends forum members. 
 + 
 +Participate in Our Forums with a Forum Membership 
 + 
 +Take your level of study up a notch and participate here in the forums! We welcome those who are interested in the study of the philosophy of Epicurus and who wish to join for the purpose of asking questions, getting to know the philosophy over time, and networking and collaborating with the EpicureanFriends community. 
 + 
 +We have membership levels based on levels of experience. After registering for an account you will be assigned to “Introductory Member” basic level which will grant you the ability to ask questions and clarify your understanding of Epicurus. This basic level also gives you access to the Self-Study Quiz Section (a series of basic quizzes about the history and teachings of the Epicurean School) and the EpicureanFriends First Monday Meet-and-Greet (via Zoom). The “Established Member” level is for advanced students and grants those who are committed to Epicurus the option of collaborating on deeper study and promotion of the philosophy. Established members are invited to join our monthly 20th Meeting and our weekly Wednesday night advanced study group. 
 + 
 +If you wish to register, please be sure you have read our Community Standards / Rules of the Forum, our Not Neo-Epicurean, But Epicurean Statement, and our Posting Policy Statement. -- Your next step is to set up an account!
  
-For more on terminology and similar topics, [[https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/faq-question-list/|check out our FAQ page]]. We also particularly recommend [[https://www.epicureanfriends.com/thread/3790-episode-222-revisiting-the-relationship-between-happiness-and-pleasure/?postID=29943#post29943|Episode 222]] of the Lucetius Today Podcast where we discuss key terminology issues surrounding "happiness" and "pleasure" and "virtue." Click over to our [[https://feather.epicureanfriends.com/?page=getting_started|Getting Started]] guide for a further introduction to Epicurean thinking, and find out where to go first when you start the study of Epicurus. 
  
 ===== Seeking Out Epicurean Friends ===== ===== Seeking Out Epicurean Friends =====
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 ===== Primary Texts ===== ===== Primary Texts =====
  
-Click here for our list of [[:primary_texts|]], including:+Click here for our list of [[:primary_texts]], including:
  
-[[:cicero_-_on_ends|]]+[[:cicero_-_on_ends]]
  
 ===== Additional Articles ===== ===== Additional Articles =====
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   * [[https://epicuruscollege.com/coursematerial/KeyNoTrueWorld/|There is No True World Beyond This One]]   * [[https://epicuruscollege.com/coursematerial/KeyNoTrueWorld/|There is No True World Beyond This One]]
   * [[https://epicuruscollege.com/coursematerial/Course-Canonics/|Basics of Epicurean Canonics]]   * [[https://epicuruscollege.com/coursematerial/Course-Canonics/|Basics of Epicurean Canonics]]
-  * [[:the_full_cup_-_fullness_of_pleasure_model|]]+  * [[:the_full_cup_-_fullness_of_pleasure_model]]
  
 ---- ----
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 Important Online Sources For Translations: | [[http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0258%3Abook%3D10%3Achapter%3D1|Perseus Diogenes Laetius - 10- Epicurus - English - Hicks)]] | [[https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0130|Perseus - Lucretius - Latin]] | [[http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0131|Perseus - Lucretius - English - Emery]] | Important Online Sources For Translations: | [[http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0258%3Abook%3D10%3Achapter%3D1|Perseus Diogenes Laetius - 10- Epicurus - English - Hicks)]] | [[https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0130|Perseus - Lucretius - Latin]] | [[http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0131|Perseus - Lucretius - English - Emery]] |
  
-Key Links here at the EpicureanFriends Wiki include: | [[:about_us|]] | [[:not_neo-epicurean_but_epicurean|]] | [[:posting_policy|]] | [[:comunity_standards|]] | [[:major_characteristics_of_the_epicurean_view_of_life|]] | [[https://archive.org/details/@cassius_amicus|Cassius Amicus Collection At Archive.org]] |+Key Links here at the EpicureanFriends Wiki include: | [[:about_us]] | [[:not_neo-epicurean_but_epicurean]] | [[:posting_policy]] | [[:comunity_standards]] | [[:major_characteristics_of_the_epicurean_view_of_life]] | [[https://archive.org/details/@cassius_amicus|Cassius Amicus Collection At Archive.org]] | 
 + 
 +[[:getting_started]]
  
-[[:getting_started|]]+[[Articles]]
  
 [[:search|search]] [[:search|search]]